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	<title>Comments on: Dr. Frances Finnegan responds to Niall McElwee</title>
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	<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/dr-frances-finnegan-responds-to-niall-mcelwee/</link>
	<description>Clucking away crookedly through media, politics and life.</description>
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		<title>By: Dan Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/dr-frances-finnegan-responds-to-niall-mcelwee/comment-page-1/#comment-59864</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 14:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=388#comment-59864</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again I&#8217;m relying on what has been posted here but the materials had not in use for a year when the WIT inquiry was made. Was that the case or not? Unless someone comes on to show that wasn&#8217;t the case we are left to assume that was the case. The SEHB expressed concerns but never completed their inquiries because the materials were no longer in use (or so they were told). They expressed concerns but didn&#8217;t follow it up. Might it be better for all concerned if they had? I think so. I think the only useful thing highlighted by this is what we seem to now call a system&#8217;s failure in the SEHB in not following up.</p>
<p>So inquiries were made into the use of something that was no longer being used and because they weren&#8217;t used again we should conclude what exactly? Dr. McElwee says the college &#8220;said I should not use the materials â€śin case of sensitivitiesâ€?.&#8221; which would seem to be consistent with the Devine report but there again I have only his word on here that this is what the (the college) said. But since what he says and what the report says don&#8217;t clash why should we make the leap to the idea the college stated the use of the materials was wrong? Approaches may be taken in all kinds of jobs and they are discontinued or replaced by other approaches, it doesn&#8217;t follow that they were wrong or inappropriate.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/dr-frances-finnegan-responds-to-niall-mcelwee/comment-page-1/#comment-59853</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 13:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=388#comment-59853</guid>
		<description>Dan that&#039;s what some might want people to think that happened, it&#039;s a bit of spin that and it&#039;s flawed and I fear we might enter the realm of legalities or just Obfuscation  - however we have the report which highlights that others agreed with the concerns being made - so back to Playing the ball - Read the Devine Report&#039;s findings. 

Because it is clear on the matter in terms of the recommendations made by WIT and actions taken by the HSE when they heard that the slides were being used - this is what&#039;s important more than trying to distract on why concerns were raised. The fact is that they were raised - when WIT did something it resulted in ensuring that the slides were not used again. The HSE didn&#039;t support their use either.  
  
&lt;em&gt;12.8.1. That Waterford Institute of Technology carried out an Internal Inquiry into concerns raised by a member of the academic staff about the teaching materials referred to in 12.2.2 above. That the Inquiry concluded with recommendations that the slides in question be returned to their original owner, an Accident and Emergency Consultant, and that the material should not be used in the future. It is also a matter of fact that the Internal WIT Inquiry was carried out in the absence of knowledge of concerns expressed by the South Eastern Health Board.


12.9.2. .... The second recorded concerns which came to the attention of the then South Eastern Health Board pertaining to child protection issues touching on or concerning Dr. A, were raised informally with officers of the SEHB in late 1998. These informal concerns related to the use of materials by Dr. A for teaching purposes within Waterford Institute of Technology. The materials used included medical slides of injuries to children which are consistent with sexual abuse. The Regional Coordinator Child Care Services wrote to Dr. A on 21 December 1998 and expressed concerns about the reported use of materials and advised that these concerns had been discussed with the Regional Child Care Training Officer and the Director of the Community Child Centre in Waterford Regional Hospital. Dr. A responded by stating that the materials had not been used in two years. On the basis of that response no further inquiries were made by the South Eastern Health Board on this matter.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan that&#8217;s what some might want people to think that happened, it&#8217;s a bit of spin that and it&#8217;s flawed and I fear we might enter the realm of legalities or just Obfuscation  &#8211; however we have the report which highlights that others agreed with the concerns being made &#8211; so back to Playing the ball &#8211; Read the Devine Report&#8217;s findings. </p>
<p>Because it is clear on the matter in terms of the recommendations made by WIT and actions taken by the HSE when they heard that the slides were being used &#8211; this is what&#8217;s important more than trying to distract on why concerns were raised. The fact is that they were raised &#8211; when WIT did something it resulted in ensuring that the slides were not used again. The HSE didn&#8217;t support their use either.  </p>
<p><em>12.8.1. That Waterford Institute of Technology carried out an Internal Inquiry into concerns raised by a member of the academic staff about the teaching materials referred to in 12.2.2 above. That the Inquiry concluded with recommendations that the slides in question be returned to their original owner, an Accident and Emergency Consultant, and that the material should not be used in the future. It is also a matter of fact that the Internal WIT Inquiry was carried out in the absence of knowledge of concerns expressed by the South Eastern Health Board.</p>
<p>12.9.2. &#8230;. The second recorded concerns which came to the attention of the then South Eastern Health Board pertaining to child protection issues touching on or concerning Dr. A, were raised informally with officers of the SEHB in late 1998. These informal concerns related to the use of materials by Dr. A for teaching purposes within Waterford Institute of Technology. The materials used included medical slides of injuries to children which are consistent with sexual abuse. The Regional Coordinator Child Care Services wrote to Dr. A on 21 December 1998 and expressed concerns about the reported use of materials and advised that these concerns had been discussed with the Regional Child Care Training Officer and the Director of the Community Child Centre in Waterford Regional Hospital. Dr. A responded by stating that the materials had not been used in two years. On the basis of that response no further inquiries were made by the South Eastern Health Board on this matter.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Dan Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/dr-frances-finnegan-responds-to-niall-mcelwee/comment-page-1/#comment-59847</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 13:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=388#comment-59847</guid>
		<description>Yet the original poster speaks about their motivation repeatedly, indeed it would seem to be the sum total of the content of their post that they were acting in the interests of the students and the college. Yet the suggestion is that to discuss those motives and how they played out is playing the man not the ball? I&#039;ve not read anything in that post that would lead anyone to believe that what did or did not happen in WIT had any relevance to what happened while Dr. McElwee was at AIT. I&#039;m just like everyone else on the outside trying to sift through the various stories to get some idea of what the truth is here.

The case as outlined appears to be that a complaint was made for some reason (that none of us on the outside can be sure of) about content being inappropriate, on a course that the complainant didn&#039;t see, a year after the content had been used and at a time when the complainant&#039;s daughter was up for a post in competition with the person being complained about. And that the complaint of the material being inappropriate wasn&#039;t upheld. These seem to be things that both sides agree on.

If I&#039;m factually wrong in the last paragraph let me know but if it is as I&#039;ve outlined it then I don&#039;t see what this whole incident has to do with anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet the original poster speaks about their motivation repeatedly, indeed it would seem to be the sum total of the content of their post that they were acting in the interests of the students and the college. Yet the suggestion is that to discuss those motives and how they played out is playing the man not the ball? I&#8217;ve not read anything in that post that would lead anyone to believe that what did or did not happen in WIT had any relevance to what happened while Dr. McElwee was at AIT. I&#8217;m just like everyone else on the outside trying to sift through the various stories to get some idea of what the truth is here.</p>
<p>The case as outlined appears to be that a complaint was made for some reason (that none of us on the outside can be sure of) about content being inappropriate, on a course that the complainant didn&#8217;t see, a year after the content had been used and at a time when the complainant&#8217;s daughter was up for a post in competition with the person being complained about. And that the complaint of the material being inappropriate wasn&#8217;t upheld. These seem to be things that both sides agree on.</p>
<p>If I&#8217;m factually wrong in the last paragraph let me know but if it is as I&#8217;ve outlined it then I don&#8217;t see what this whole incident has to do with anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Niall McElwee</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/dr-frances-finnegan-responds-to-niall-mcelwee/comment-page-1/#comment-59828</link>
		<dc:creator>Niall McElwee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 11:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=388#comment-59828</guid>
		<description>Mamam Poulet on this blog last summer afforded great room for discussion re the infamous Slide Atlas materials. She then allows Dr. Finnegan more space to refute my claims and then, because I try to set a context, says I would love her to entertain...&quot;with the detriment of the reputation of others...&quot;. Now, to use a sports metaphor -this is playing two sides of the field at once. Surely fairness dictates that I should be allowed room to reply seeing as we are talking about something that the college looked into in 1998/9 and then said I should not use the materials &quot;in case of sensitivities&quot;. The college never said I was wrong to use the materials and had allowed another staff to use them. How does Dr. Finnegan (and Katydid) explain the fact that the entire academic course board validated my use of the materials if they were so inapporpriate?
 
I have repeatedly apologised for the Amsterdam incident, but there is no connection between it and my use of the educational package nearly a decade before - no matter how hard people such as Dr. Finnegan try to link them.

I will return to this entire story i.e. Waterford and thereafter in another fora where there is a level playing pitch at a later date.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mamam Poulet on this blog last summer afforded great room for discussion re the infamous Slide Atlas materials. She then allows Dr. Finnegan more space to refute my claims and then, because I try to set a context, says I would love her to entertain&#8230;&#8221;with the detriment of the reputation of others&#8230;&#8221;. Now, to use a sports metaphor -this is playing two sides of the field at once. Surely fairness dictates that I should be allowed room to reply seeing as we are talking about something that the college looked into in 1998/9 and then said I should not use the materials &#8220;in case of sensitivities&#8221;. The college never said I was wrong to use the materials and had allowed another staff to use them. How does Dr. Finnegan (and Katydid) explain the fact that the entire academic course board validated my use of the materials if they were so inapporpriate?</p>
<p>I have repeatedly apologised for the Amsterdam incident, but there is no connection between it and my use of the educational package nearly a decade before &#8211; no matter how hard people such as Dr. Finnegan try to link them.</p>
<p>I will return to this entire story i.e. Waterford and thereafter in another fora where there is a level playing pitch at a later date.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/dr-frances-finnegan-responds-to-niall-mcelwee/comment-page-1/#comment-59788</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 11:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=388#comment-59788</guid>
		<description>I think that discussion of the possible motivations is something that Dr. McElwee would love us to entertain ourselves with to the detriment of the reputation of others and this is a case of what Slugger O&#039;Toole would refer to as playing the woman/man instead of the ball.  Not on my pitch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that discussion of the possible motivations is something that Dr. McElwee would love us to entertain ourselves with to the detriment of the reputation of others and this is a case of what Slugger O&#8217;Toole would refer to as playing the woman/man instead of the ball.  Not on my pitch.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/dr-frances-finnegan-responds-to-niall-mcelwee/comment-page-1/#comment-59786</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 11:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=388#comment-59786</guid>
		<description>Irrespective of whom was or was not successful in securing the appointment, the point was made in the original post to underscore that the person making the complaint had no axe to grind with Dr. Niall McElwee. I think the folks in those legal movies would say &quot;I believe it speaks to motive, your honour&quot;. Dr. Niall McElwee claims she had motive for the complaint other than that which she has outlined and Dr. Frances Finnegan has refuted this and provided dates as evidence of this. I think discussion of the motivation behind the complaint being made goes to the core of whether the events at WIT have any relevance to what occurred later in Dr. Niall McElwee&#039;s career.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Irrespective of whom was or was not successful in securing the appointment, the point was made in the original post to underscore that the person making the complaint had no axe to grind with Dr. Niall McElwee. I think the folks in those legal movies would say &#8220;I believe it speaks to motive, your honour&#8221;. Dr. Niall McElwee claims she had motive for the complaint other than that which she has outlined and Dr. Frances Finnegan has refuted this and provided dates as evidence of this. I think discussion of the motivation behind the complaint being made goes to the core of whether the events at WIT have any relevance to what occurred later in Dr. Niall McElwee&#8217;s career.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/dr-frances-finnegan-responds-to-niall-mcelwee/comment-page-1/#comment-59766</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 09:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=388#comment-59766</guid>
		<description>For clarification - neither candidate being referred to was successful in that competition so excuses above/discussion is moot!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For clarification &#8211; neither candidate being referred to was successful in that competition so excuses above/discussion is moot!</p>
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		<title>By: Niall McElwee</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/dr-frances-finnegan-responds-to-niall-mcelwee/comment-page-1/#comment-59764</link>
		<dc:creator>Niall McElwee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 08:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=388#comment-59764</guid>
		<description>Dan is, indeed, correct. Of course such posts are well signed internally before external advertising. Just ask any college lecturer in the system. Thus, it is just incredible that Finnegan would claim she did not know about it and just too convienent that the complaint was made when it was. And, the relevant College authorities have already stated that, to their knowledge, no students required therapy as alleged after exposure to the teaching package that Finnegan herself admits she never even saw - nor asked to. So, what was the real problem? There was another agenda at play and it will be revealed at some stage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan is, indeed, correct. Of course such posts are well signed internally before external advertising. Just ask any college lecturer in the system. Thus, it is just incredible that Finnegan would claim she did not know about it and just too convienent that the complaint was made when it was. And, the relevant College authorities have already stated that, to their knowledge, no students required therapy as alleged after exposure to the teaching package that Finnegan herself admits she never even saw &#8211; nor asked to. So, what was the real problem? There was another agenda at play and it will be revealed at some stage.</p>
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		<title>By: Bock the Robber</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/dr-frances-finnegan-responds-to-niall-mcelwee/comment-page-1/#comment-59526</link>
		<dc:creator>Bock the Robber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 20:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=388#comment-59526</guid>
		<description>I would like to know what criteria Dr Finnegan applied to determine that the slides were inappropriate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to know what criteria Dr Finnegan applied to determine that the slides were inappropriate.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/dr-frances-finnegan-responds-to-niall-mcelwee/comment-page-1/#comment-59319</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 10:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=388#comment-59319</guid>
		<description>Just regarding the &quot;WIT confirmed last week that the job referred to by Niall McEllwee was first advertised on 29th May â€“ more than a month after I made my initial complaint.&quot; It is not uncommon from my limited knowledge of how 3rd level institutions operate in Ireland for positions to be known about within the particular department or college long before (several months) they are advertised. And I&#039;m curious but was the College Equality Officer really the appropriate person to take this to? They may have had some other role in WIT but surely if the materials were just simply inappropriate for the couese then how was it an issue for the College Equality Officer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just regarding the &#8220;WIT confirmed last week that the job referred to by Niall McEllwee was first advertised on 29th May â€“ more than a month after I made my initial complaint.&#8221; It is not uncommon from my limited knowledge of how 3rd level institutions operate in Ireland for positions to be known about within the particular department or college long before (several months) they are advertised. And I&#8217;m curious but was the College Equality Officer really the appropriate person to take this to? They may have had some other role in WIT but surely if the materials were just simply inappropriate for the couese then how was it an issue for the College Equality Officer?</p>
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