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	<title>Comments on: Oireachtas Information on Civil Partnership Bill</title>
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	<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/oireachtas-information-on-civil-partnership-bill/</link>
	<description>Clucking away crookedly through media, politics and life.</description>
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		<title>By: SeanR</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/oireachtas-information-on-civil-partnership-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-125952</link>
		<dc:creator>SeanR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Those parliamentarians debating NAMA deserve a medal or therapy... or both... 

Thanks for the info on the point about legislative issues for the CP Bill. I am still concerned that the proverbial thinking isn&#039;t joined up. The sense of irony that we cannot join up the elements and we cannot have gay marriage either for constitutional reasons is not lost on me. I sense that a CP Bill without the welfare/ tax elements in place until sometime into 2010, and it will effectively corrale us without an appropriate package of rights/ entitlements, etc. If it is going to go down to the wire in December, I&#039;m also concerned the government might fall on the budget anyhow - if backbenchers revolted over drink-driving, what will they do over the budget?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those parliamentarians debating NAMA deserve a medal or therapy&#8230; or both&#8230; </p>
<p>Thanks for the info on the point about legislative issues for the CP Bill. I am still concerned that the proverbial thinking isn&#8217;t joined up. The sense of irony that we cannot join up the elements and we cannot have gay marriage either for constitutional reasons is not lost on me. I sense that a CP Bill without the welfare/ tax elements in place until sometime into 2010, and it will effectively corrale us without an appropriate package of rights/ entitlements, etc. If it is going to go down to the wire in December, I&#8217;m also concerned the government might fall on the budget anyhow &#8211; if backbenchers revolted over drink-driving, what will they do over the budget?</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/oireachtas-information-on-civil-partnership-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-125902</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 19:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I vaguely remember hearing something as well that There is a supposed constitutional reason as well for introducing separate finance and social welfare parts of the Bill. 

Would I be right in thinking that the finance part of the bill is part of the budget? And therefore will be on Dec 9th?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I vaguely remember hearing something as well that There is a supposed constitutional reason as well for introducing separate finance and social welfare parts of the Bill. </p>
<p>Would I be right in thinking that the finance part of the bill is part of the budget? And therefore will be on Dec 9th?</p>
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		<title>By: click here</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/oireachtas-information-on-civil-partnership-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-125827</link>
		<dc:creator>click here</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 11:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=2378#comment-125827</guid>
		<description>Thanks, MP.  Will keep an eye on that schedule! 

@ Sean - I&#039;ve heard a couple of people say that separate legislation on welfare and tax means it&#039;s easier to amend a finance bill (for example restricting any rights already recognised for same-sex couples) rather than amending a civil partnership bill, without many people noticing, or at least not noticing until it may be very late. 

(That may be a cynical or slightly paranoid view, but it made sense when I heard it!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, MP.  Will keep an eye on that schedule! </p>
<p>@ Sean &#8211; I&#8217;ve heard a couple of people say that separate legislation on welfare and tax means it&#8217;s easier to amend a finance bill (for example restricting any rights already recognised for same-sex couples) rather than amending a civil partnership bill, without many people noticing, or at least not noticing until it may be very late. </p>
<p>(That may be a cynical or slightly paranoid view, but it made sense when I heard it!)</p>
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		<title>By: Maman Poulet</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/oireachtas-information-on-civil-partnership-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-125811</link>
		<dc:creator>Maman Poulet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t think there is anything that can be discerned except the bill is due this session. The date on the document is 24 September though I think it&#039;s been promoted only recently. I&#039;ve checked the &lt;a href=&quot;http://oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=13119&amp;&amp;CatID=60&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;schedule &lt;/a&gt;for this week and the bill is not listed (It&#039;s more NAMA and some of the supplementary estimates also appear for a vote at end of week)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think there is anything that can be discerned except the bill is due this session. The date on the document is 24 September though I think it&#8217;s been promoted only recently. I&#8217;ve checked the <a href="http://oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=13119&#038;&#038;CatID=60" rel="nofollow">schedule </a>for this week and the bill is not listed (It&#8217;s more NAMA and some of the supplementary estimates also appear for a vote at end of week)</p>
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		<title>By: click here</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/oireachtas-information-on-civil-partnership-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-125781</link>
		<dc:creator>click here</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 06:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting!  On a cursory scan of the document, it doesn&#039;t look too bad: it states clearly what the Bill doesn&#039;t do as well as what it does, and the section on comparisons with other jurisdictions is useful. 

I&#039;d have to have a proper read of it to see what I really think of it, but so far the Digest gets a &quot;Surprisingly not bad&quot; from me. 

In your experience, MP, do you reckon a timeline can be discerned from the publication of these Digests to the timing of the Dáil/Seanad debates?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting!  On a cursory scan of the document, it doesn&#8217;t look too bad: it states clearly what the Bill doesn&#8217;t do as well as what it does, and the section on comparisons with other jurisdictions is useful. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d have to have a proper read of it to see what I really think of it, but so far the Digest gets a &#8220;Surprisingly not bad&#8221; from me. </p>
<p>In your experience, MP, do you reckon a timeline can be discerned from the publication of these Digests to the timing of the Dáil/Seanad debates?</p>
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		<title>By: SeanR</title>
		<link>http://www.mamanpoulet.com/oireachtas-information-on-civil-partnership-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-125776</link>
		<dc:creator>SeanR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 05:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Brilliant digging to find this!!!! (Scribd is soooo cooool!)

I&#039;ve only downloaded a copy to read and did notice a couple of strange things like &quot;cohabitatants&quot; (p3) and &quot;Principals&quot; of the Bill.  It is rather 
&#039;revisionist&#039; IMO about how and why previous attempts to introduce civil partnership bills were not successful, ditto the views on marriage (as far as I&#039;ve read). 

The memo states directly that there is no provision for welfare and tax of civil partners and notes other legislation would be required. This frankly alarms the hell out of me: why is there this great big hole in the road at this point? 

It would be prudent for the Government to clarify these issues by putting up Bills (or amendments to existing legislation) in theses arenas, as there will be much time wasted debating Civil Partnership and having Min for Finance making up amendments/ appeasing allcomers over these issues (again). Today in the Irish Times, Andreas Hess has a thoughtful piece about the weakness of public intellectuals in this Republic: when a government leaves cow pats like no legislation on tax of civil partners (etc.), it weakens the citizens&#039; abilities to have an &#039;intellectual&#039; discourse, if we have to shout from the sidelines as usual about things that should have been prepared while we have been sitting in the ante-room since 1993.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant digging to find this!!!! (Scribd is soooo cooool!)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve only downloaded a copy to read and did notice a couple of strange things like &#8220;cohabitatants&#8221; (p3) and &#8220;Principals&#8221; of the Bill.  It is rather<br />
&#8216;revisionist&#8217; IMO about how and why previous attempts to introduce civil partnership bills were not successful, ditto the views on marriage (as far as I&#8217;ve read). </p>
<p>The memo states directly that there is no provision for welfare and tax of civil partners and notes other legislation would be required. This frankly alarms the hell out of me: why is there this great big hole in the road at this point? </p>
<p>It would be prudent for the Government to clarify these issues by putting up Bills (or amendments to existing legislation) in theses arenas, as there will be much time wasted debating Civil Partnership and having Min for Finance making up amendments/ appeasing allcomers over these issues (again). Today in the Irish Times, Andreas Hess has a thoughtful piece about the weakness of public intellectuals in this Republic: when a government leaves cow pats like no legislation on tax of civil partners (etc.), it weakens the citizens&#8217; abilities to have an &#8216;intellectual&#8217; discourse, if we have to shout from the sidelines as usual about things that should have been prepared while we have been sitting in the ante-room since 1993.</p>
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