Comments on: Unasked for advice http://www.mamanpoulet.com/unasked-for-advice/ Clucking away crookedly through media, politics and life. Tue, 07 Sep 2010 00:33:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: UnaRocks http://www.mamanpoulet.com/unasked-for-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-86331 UnaRocks Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:35:11 +0000 http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=522#comment-86331 Great post. Great post.

]]> By: Marie http://www.mamanpoulet.com/unasked-for-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-86076 Marie Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:46:56 +0000 http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=522#comment-86076 Simon some people want rights, they are not looking for what you call equality and I call marriage... perhaps the "marriage" campaign in the Uk has stalled because there is no desire at this time for anything else. Why would according essential rights now diminish a push for further rights later if thats truly what a significant group of people want? Or is it that those who want marriage are willing to sacrifice those who need rights now in pursuance of their own cause? Simon some people want rights, they are not looking for what you call equality and I call marriage… perhaps the “marriage” campaign in the Uk has stalled because there is no desire at this time for anything else. Why would according essential rights now diminish a push for further rights later if thats truly what a significant group of people want? Or is it that those who want marriage are willing to sacrifice those who need rights now in pursuance of their own cause?

]]> By: Ian http://www.mamanpoulet.com/unasked-for-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-86070 Ian Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:34:31 +0000 http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=522#comment-86070 Why does that statement confuse you Simon? - Had you not considered that there are couples who need legal recognition NOW? The first ever couple in the UK who registered a civil partnership were such a couple where one one of them died a few days afterwards - I for one would bring in civil partnerships tomorrow to alleviate a similar situation rather than spending another 2 maybe 5 years posturing and debating that we must only have marriage. Why does that statement confuse you Simon? – Had you not considered that there are couples who need legal recognition NOW? The first ever couple in the UK who registered a civil partnership were such a couple where one one of them died a few days afterwards – I for one would bring in civil partnerships tomorrow to alleviate a similar situation rather than spending another 2 maybe 5 years posturing and debating that we must only have marriage.

]]> By: Simon Murphy http://www.mamanpoulet.com/unasked-for-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-85891 Simon Murphy Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:13:51 +0000 http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=522#comment-85891 Civil partnerships in my view do impede the fight for equality. Just look at the UK; France and Germany. The campaign for equality for gay relationships in those countries has been dealt a very serious blow by civil partnership legislation. People are simply not motivated to get equality (and in all those countries civil partnerships are not equal to marriage) That may be satisfactory for some people but personally I find it offensive. And Ian - your statement that those who wish to cancel the civil partnership laws in order to wait a few more years for equality are being selfish confuses me? Is it more selfish for example than those people who want civil partnership today thereby preventing those gay people who want equality being able to access it? There has never been legal recognition of gay relationships in modern Ireland. Waiting a while longer will of course be difficult for some people. However the damage that will be done to the equality campaign by intoducing a 2 tier legal system for relationships will be far more damaging in the long run. And in the longrun I don't think that the next generation of gay people will thank anyone for accepting 2nd class status. Civil partnerships in my view do impede the fight for equality. Just look at the UK; France and Germany. The campaign for equality for gay relationships in those countries has been dealt a very serious blow by civil partnership legislation. People are simply not motivated to get equality (and in all those countries civil partnerships are not equal to marriage) That may be satisfactory for some people but personally I find it offensive.

And Ian – your statement that those who wish to cancel the civil partnership laws in order to wait a few more years for equality are being selfish confuses me? Is it more selfish for example than those people who want civil partnership today thereby preventing those gay people who want equality being able to access it? There has never been legal recognition of gay relationships in modern Ireland. Waiting a while longer will of course be difficult for some people. However the damage that will be done to the equality campaign by intoducing a 2 tier legal system for relationships will be far more damaging in the long run. And in the longrun I don’t think that the next generation of gay people will thank anyone for accepting 2nd class status.

]]> By: marie http://www.mamanpoulet.com/unasked-for-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-85682 marie Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:55:54 +0000 http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=522#comment-85682 I attended the funeral of a friend and old work colleague who died suddenly last week. His partner of 12 years could certainly do with civil partnership rights. The choice to delay is one which has serious consequences for those who need rights now. There is no mandate for that decision and frankly those who are spearheading this stance have not attempted to get one. Civil partnerships now, does not impede the fight for more extensive rights as an ongoing campaign, I would argue that it strengthens that demand. I attended the funeral of a friend and old work colleague who died suddenly last week. His partner of 12 years could certainly do with civil partnership rights. The choice to delay is one which has serious consequences for those who need rights now. There is no mandate for that decision and frankly those who are spearheading this stance have not attempted to get one. Civil partnerships now, does not impede the fight for more extensive rights as an ongoing campaign, I would argue that it strengthens that demand.

]]> By: Ian http://www.mamanpoulet.com/unasked-for-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-85660 Ian Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:04:59 +0000 http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=522#comment-85660 Simon It is hugely disigenuous of you to say that Civil Partnerships will satisfy nobody. There are lots of lesbians and gay men who are not looking for the option of marriage but would want civil partnership. There are gay couples who NEED legal recognition NOW and do not care whether it is marriage, pink elephants or civil partnership. To be honest - those who seek to delay civil partnerships because they want marriage are being extremely selfish and unconsiderate of such couples. The thing is as well Simon - most of the groups in this campaign do not have any representative mandate because they have never consulted with anyone on the issues and they are representing their own viewpoint. LGBT Noise are equally as culpable in this regard as GLEN. Simon

It is hugely disigenuous of you to say that Civil Partnerships will satisfy nobody. There are lots of lesbians and gay men who are not looking for the option of marriage but would want civil partnership. There are gay couples who NEED legal recognition NOW and do not care whether it is marriage, pink elephants or civil partnership. To be honest – those who seek to delay civil partnerships because they want marriage are being extremely selfish and unconsiderate of such couples.

The thing is as well Simon – most of the groups in this campaign do not have any representative mandate because they have never consulted with anyone on the issues and they are representing their own viewpoint. LGBT Noise are equally as culpable in this regard as GLEN.

]]> By: Simon Murphy http://www.mamanpoulet.com/unasked-for-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-85265 Simon Murphy Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:38:28 +0000 http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=522#comment-85265 But the trouble is that the government speaks to groups like GLEN as if they have some representative mandate for the gay population when they have nothing of the sort. At least LGBT Noise are seeking full equality and not willing to settle for some insulting half measure like civil partnerships. Anyone with a knowledge or interest in human rights knows that equality is a right not a privilege. Therefore unlike GLEN, LGBT Noise are not settling for a discriminatory measure. Personally I would rather see the civil partnership legislation shelved for a few years and gay people to campaign for proper equality. This civil partnership legislation will kill the campaign for equality of gay relationships like it has done in the UK (now that they have some legal recognition of their relationships gay people have stopped campaigning for equality.) The government's excuse for not legislating for full equality is that it was unconstitutional and would be opposed by the religious and conservative groups. Well it won't surprise anyone that these groups are also opposed to civil partnerships. Civil partnerships will satisfy nobody. But the trouble is that the government speaks to groups like GLEN as if they have some representative mandate for the gay population when they have nothing of the sort. At least LGBT Noise are seeking full equality and not willing to settle for some insulting half measure like civil partnerships. Anyone with a knowledge or interest in human rights knows that equality is a right not a privilege. Therefore unlike GLEN, LGBT Noise are not settling for a discriminatory measure.

Personally I would rather see the civil partnership legislation shelved for a few years and gay people to campaign for proper equality. This civil partnership legislation will kill the campaign for equality of gay relationships like it has done in the UK (now that they have some legal recognition of their relationships gay people have stopped campaigning for equality.)

The government’s excuse for not legislating for full equality is that it was unconstitutional and would be opposed by the religious and conservative groups. Well it won’t surprise anyone that these groups are also opposed to civil partnerships. Civil partnerships will satisfy nobody.

]]> By: Niamh http://www.mamanpoulet.com/unasked-for-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-85256 Niamh Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:47:50 +0000 http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=522#comment-85256 On the ball as ever Maman, and I liked Sean's commentary also. He's right about online commentary filling the gaping void that is reflection in lgbt politics presently. Simon - those groups you mention represent noone - they don't consult people, LGBT noise <i>involve</i> people but they were elected/appointed by nobody and are full of good intention but don't think before they act. Those of us who are seeking recognition of our families and relationships and live in the real world are prevented from voicing our opinion by these groups who claim to represent our community when it suits them. For some of the community groups mentioned and unmentioned, well they are as bad as the other side with the cloak and dagger antics, big wages and lack of real world experience that they have. On the ball as ever Maman, and I liked Sean’s commentary also. He’s right about online commentary filling the gaping void that is reflection in lgbt politics presently.

Simon – those groups you mention represent noone – they don’t consult people, LGBT noise involve people but they were elected/appointed by nobody and are full of good intention but don’t think before they act. Those of us who are seeking recognition of our families and relationships and live in the real world are prevented from voicing our opinion by these groups who claim to represent our community when it suits them.

For some of the community groups mentioned and unmentioned, well they are as bad as the other side with the cloak and dagger antics, big wages and lack of real world experience that they have.

]]> By: Simon Murphy http://www.mamanpoulet.com/unasked-for-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-85248 Simon Murphy Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:24:23 +0000 http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=522#comment-85248 Why not contact RTE and ask them why as a state broadcaster they are failing in their mission by only allowing someone with an anti-gay agenda air his opinion? Their job is to provide balanced broadcasting giving both sides an opportunity to get their point of view across. Complain to RTE by phoning 01-2083111 (No name necessary) or emailing- complaints@rte.ie. By the way I think the difficulty that the gayfolk in Ireland are going to experience in getting this Civil Partnership laws enacted is because the gay 'community' does not exist in any real form. The christian community are very focussed in their efforts and are all working for the same goal. The gay population are not. For example we cannot even agree on what we are looking for. GLEN wants civil partnership laws introduced. They do not represent me. LGBT Noise want full marriage introduced. They do represent me. The mixed messages being sent out is giving the 'phobes an easy time. And RTE by only giving the 'phobes a voice is helping them Why not contact RTE and ask them why as a state broadcaster they are failing in their mission by only allowing someone with an anti-gay agenda air his opinion? Their job is to provide balanced broadcasting giving both sides an opportunity to get their point of view across.

Complain to RTE by phoning 01-2083111 (No name necessary) or emailing- complaints@rte.ie.

By the way I think the difficulty that the gayfolk in Ireland are going to experience in getting this Civil Partnership laws enacted is because the gay ‘community’ does not exist in any real form. The christian community are very focussed in their efforts and are all working for the same goal.

The gay population are not. For example we cannot even agree on what we are looking for. GLEN wants civil partnership laws introduced. They do not represent me. LGBT Noise want full marriage introduced. They do represent me. The mixed messages being sent out is giving the ‘phobes an easy time.

And RTE by only giving the ‘phobes a voice is helping them

]]> By: Neil http://www.mamanpoulet.com/unasked-for-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-85244 Neil Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:18:19 +0000 http://www.mamanpoulet.com/?p=522#comment-85244 This is one of the many times where I must applaud you for dipping into my head, and putting my thoughts into a blog post more eloquently than I could ever manage.... This is one of the many times where I must applaud you for dipping into my head, and putting my thoughts into a blog post more eloquently than I could ever manage….

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