‘The Sentiment was Genuine’
Posted by Maman Poulet on 13 Dec 2009 at 01:38 am | Tagged as: Green Party, Irish Politics
There’s a multitude of Paul Gogarty related groups on Facebook – one of the first to be set up has Paul himself posting on it this evening. You’d think he’d be lying low and hoping it would pass – but no this is all about keeping the story going while the bill itself is swept aside like the people it affected.
Deputy Gogarty’s (Salary €100K per annum) loving the attention and doesn’t regret a thing – ‘the sentiment was genuine’. Classy man eh? The ringtone isn’t all you’ll be remembered for Deputy. I’m sure your constituents who have had their social welfare benefits cut won’t forget you in a hurry.
I wonder when he’ll tell us more about the technicality that caused his resignation as Education Spokesperson after the Green Party Convention earlier this year as he explained it away to Marian Finucane this morning. As I remember it from the very well covered event he quit over the cuts – no technicality and loads of drama.
Revisionism?
It’s time the eccentric tag ceased. This is a vanity exercise. Deputy Gogarty might also like to call off his pack dogs with the homophobia and other taunts online too by the way. Or is that too a sentiment he shares?
Gogarty is a desperate, attention seeking charlatan who deserves to be ignored.
The fact that he prefaced his ‘outburst’ with “in the most unparliamentary language” shows that it wasn’t actually an ‘outburst’ but a calculated attempt to turn the attention away from the fact that he was voting with the rest of the government on the social welfare bill, to his language.
The fact that he has attracted the lowest common denominator homophobic defenders online does not surprise me at all. The Greens in government have been a dissapointment from start to finish…
And now it appears he’s a Lily Allen fan as well. What a knob.
Sigh
Is it me or is this designed to take away the news spotlight from massively destrutive social welfare cuts. Maybe it’s just me but I think this has just cheapened democracy for the sake of entertainment-
I’m amazed at some peoples reactions “Gogarty for Taoiseach”, “Gogarty is a legend”, “I want to vote for Paul Gogarty”
For me the real story is the cuts
Given the crap about yesterday and Gogarty’s own participation in it it’s clear the Greens are happy with the diversion. I’m stunned by the political ignorance of many on facebook and youtube etc who believe that Gogarty is a member of the opposition because of the nature of the outburst.
LOL at the I(gnorance)-factor on facebook/youtube…
Gogarty is pulling a Reaganite tactic, run against your own government! The original blue smoke and mirrors… let’s see how the €100k baby would live on welfare (as they all will after the next election!) And no, holding onto power won’t lessen the wipe-out that’s coming.
So let’s ignore the child having the hissy fit in his soiled green pants (on any media that will listen to him) and get back to the social welfare cuts.
For me – it highlights the lack of understanding people have of democracy or current affairs in Ireland – I think this is also something that needs to be reflected on – I think we need as a society to examine how education and the media inform and educate people.
Are people informed enough? Are Irish people a very docile people who let capitalist classes rule their destiny?
I didn’t for a moment believe this guff about how this was off the cuff and that he was defending his sincerity (note that he also said that none of this was his fault but he’s neglected to mention that he’s ok with sitting in government with those whose fault in part it was. The weirdest thing is that Gogarty, purely because he is in a 4 seater with one TD (Mary Harney) who is definitely standing down, was one of the best placed to survive. FG should with Frances Fitzgerald are best place to make a gain but it would have simply been Harney’s seat. FF were the only party who looked remotely like getting a 2nd last time and that’s not happen now with the party in the doldrums.
After this, I would say that SF activists are racing to the bookies to back their chances of taking his seat. Hell, Joanna Tuffy might be up for a running mate at this rate.
For all that I’m no fan of the deputy’s if claims are going to made that there is a pack of homophobic attack dogs shouldn’t they be linked rather than simply saying it without providing anything to back it up? We wouldn’t want people to think that you were stooping to the deputy’s level.
“I’m stunned by the political ignorance of many on facebook and youtube etc who believe that Gogarty is a member of the opposition because of the nature of the outburst”
We’ve had 12 years of uninterrupted FF led government; I’m afraid I’m surprised by nothing at this stage…
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story, isn’t that right? There isn’t such a thing as news any more there is prejudice from one viewpoint or another. It applies to bloggers equally as with print and broadcast media.
The only good media left these days is one where you can put your view across without selective editing, hence Marian Finucane.
The Education ‘technicality’ has been explained in detail months before.
Vanity? Why then was no journalist spoken to or press release sent out for six months this year? The odd comment in response to vindictive misinformation does not a vanity project make.
A calculated outburst? Calculated by 0.5 seconds. Really premeditated that.
Thinking cuts are 100% necessary but that what caused that necessity is unfair is not hypocritical or contradictory. But then pharisees don’t do nuance.
Paul
maybe you too will leave for the graeter wage packets of europe like Ms de Burca, gone not too soon I might add.
stupid. you? i should not think so.
calculated? yes. most likely. maybe one of the more intelligent greens, in that context.
attention seeking? after this comment? 100%
outburst…. pre meditated? absolutely.
another green who has lost his way seeking to find a greater good…. ? I should think so
another year with ’some’ power – not likely.
best wishes
peter
If you really feel you had to support that budget and victimise the poor and the vulnerable, then I have only one thing to say to you, Paul –
Fuck you, Deputy Gogarty. Fuck you.
“But then pharisees don’t do nuance.”
This made me laugh out loud. What exactly about this whole affair was nuanced?
[...] There are many constants in life. Sun comes up, sun goes down. Irish summer, rain-a-plenty. Grass is green, sky is blue, water is wet, Damien Rice is a tedious, acoustic cunt and Green Party members think they’re Jesus. [...]
Paul, (if it is yourself)
You speak of truth but the truth is you didn’t offer any alternative yourself in your spake to the Dáil. At a minimum, the cuts could have been altered to exclude those who weren’t on Jobseekers Allowance and the money found from other measures. Such as the one highlighted by Fintan O’Toole last night on Vincent Browne of standard rating the tax relief on private pension contributions. 80% of the money foregone goes to higher earners; the rest of working people typically don’t have enough money left over at the end of the week to make a private pension contribution.
You are a TD, a member of our parliament and you could have sought to table an amendment that preserved the €4 billion framework and to convince others of the rightness of those changes. You didn’t to that, you didn’t make that positive choice, you went with the flow. You hid behind swearing much as many others do to mask the fact that they have nothing of substance to contribute to the debate.
If you have nothing more to contribute (which you appear to be saying if you’ve taking a 6 month sabbatical from engaging with the press and the public) then resign and let someone else who is still interested do the job.
And only a minor thing but with this comment “But then pharisees don’t do nuance.” are you seriously comparing yourself with Christ?
Deputy can you please revisit the Education ‘technicality’ and explain what it was again and how it was cured?
Having watched you, deputy, wring your hands and all but cry crocodile tears as you basically said to the poor, ” This is hurting me more than it hurts you” last week, when anyone of any real conscience would have refused to support the government knowing that there were other options to kicking the vulnerable in the teeth, it now is a bit rich to have you come on here and bleat about not getting fair coverage. ( yes I said bleat- cos thats what sheep do – they bleat). There was nothing fair about last week’s budget, there was nothing honourable about your position or your party’s and the only patriots are the ones who are prepared to stand up and challenge the forces of oppression. You failed on all 3 counts.
There are no other credible options. Full stop.
Talk is cheap. The figures don’t lie.
A pharisee is someone who judges from a position of pseudo moral superiority. It is no longer a phrase exclusive to the Bible.
To all the cynics posting here… try and deflect from the dodgy rezoning votes of your comrades all you like, but it won’t work. We are in this trouble because of the lot of you….
This budget is unfair. I don’t like it. But the nuance is that I accept that this budget is 100% unnecessary.
And I am voting for the budget with a clear conscience in what I believe to be the best interests of the country in the medium to long term. Full stop. And goodbye.
Stop digging Paul. You look like a child.
Paul: “We are in this trouble because of the lot of you….”
Well… Yes. That’s true. Or at least those of us who voted for you lot…
Firstly Paul I presume that you meant 100% necessary and not 100% unnecessary -
You’re right talk is cheap and the politics.ie discussion is nasty but you’re actually doing yourself no favours
What offended me was the inappropriateness of his word-choice. In the context of the debate, he should have said “fuck off”, not “fuck you”. There’s a difference.
Kids today.
[...] The Sentiment Was Genuine. [...]
Paul you appear to be quite the pharisee when it comes to matters of zoning and planning. Conflating the problems associated with bad planning with the crisis in the public finances is completely erroneous and I presume you know the difference otherwise I would have concerns about your ability to assess the other problems we face as a nation. What next our over dependence on landfill has undermined calls for gay marriage?
The dull fact is that for all the many things that can be laid at the door of bad planning decisions it isn’t zoning that caused the crisis in the public finances. It was bad lending policies on the part of the banks, it was the cheerleading by the state for people to engage in crazy borrowing agreements, it was shoddy work on the part of the regulator. But it wasn’t zoning decisions that caused any of that, any more that it was the availability of wood build houses or near full employment that is to blame. If we had zoned less land (given that we zoned so much we could still be building for another 50 years in same places without zoning any more) and in better places, people would still have bought the same amount of houses and by borrowing unsustainable amounts too.
In noting your reference to comrades which would seem to you’re implying the Labour party are somehow were to blame for this. Is that because they simply had cllrs who made decisions, or are you suggesting something more? I’m not aware of any Labour cllrs taking cash for planning decisions. As a member of Fine Gael I hold no brief for the Labour party, and there are a small number of FG reps who behaved very badly indeed, letting down their constituents and the rest of us by, by taking money which may have influenced their decisions. I would also say there have been FG representatives who have been party to what I view as very poor decisions about zoning, in particular in the counties surrounding Dublin. But none of that caused the Irish financial crisis any more than it’s all the fault of Lehman’s.
The position is that you’ve succumbed to peer pressure and gone along with something that you know to be flawed because you lack the courage to offer any alternative or change to the policies adopted by the cabinet. “There are no other credible options. Full stop.”
No other credible options? None. At all. Not a one. You can’t think of a single other credible option? Not even say one from the 2007 like “Replace tax relief for private pensions with a tapered matching contributions scheme targeted at savers with lower incomes.”
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/about/party_archives/election_2007/manifesto_2007/manifesto
So anything from that manifesto is not credible or remotely an option then?
“Talk is cheap. The figures don’t lie.”
Talk is all you’ve offered to date, where is your action?
To all the cynics posting here… try and deflect from the dodgy rezoning votes of your comrades all you like, but it won’t work. We are in this trouble because of the lot of you….
Pathetic but typically Green.
“It was like that when we got here” doesn’t wash. Everyone knew what ‘here’ was like, you chose to go and enter into government with them. You can’t pretend you didn’t know.
This is TOO delicious:
“To all the cynics posting here… try and deflect from the dodgy rezoning votes of your comrades all you like, but it won’t work. We are in this trouble because of the lot of you…”
So…. everyone who reacted to (a) his outburst and (b)his post is a member of some political party. Not necessarily so and even if true, so what?
But…..this is eye-wateringly funny:
“But the nuance is that I accept that this budget is 100% unnecessary.”
So quotable, so leakable to some well-placed journo, so unbelievably brilliant.
I could go on, but I shall keep sniggering instead.
Delicious.
Gogarty the sonner you and your party are obliterated at the next election the better for all Irish people !!You my friend are a fool but i suppose you got one thing right thankfully you will loose your seat
Yes we all do typos from time to time…. mea mucho culpa cynics!
But this bit added in by Mamam Poulet and just spotted certainly ain’t a typo:
“Deputy Gogarty might also like to call off his pack dogs with the homophobia and other taunts online too by the way. Or is that too a sentiment he shares?”
MY pack dogs? When I am being called gay because a misquote in a national newspaper. When I was spat on for being ‘gay’ because I used to dress flamboyantly in the 1980s? You think I like homophobes?
Those of us who are not gay have gay friends and family. Why would someone who has suffered abuse for being perceived to be gay have it in for gay people?
There are those who disagree on the progress possible vis a vis the Civil Partnership Bill and certainly recent court judgements suggest constitutional reform is essential.
But to say I am gay bashing or encouraging it is just plain low down and nasty slur.
And it seems to have been added in AFTER I sent a personal detailed explanation of said ‘technicality’ that Suzy asked for.
And I thought it was just certain newspapers that were biased?
Paul,
Firstly that reference to the homophobia was there in the original post – if I update posts I make reference to the updating. Secondly it was not a reference to your own sexuality – Go back and read that sentence again – it’s not my style at all unlike some other Irish bloggers who I note were speculating over the weekend. I don’t play those games and think my readership would back up my blogging ethics in this regard. Also my 17 years involvement in lesbian and gay issues, nationally and internationally I’ve spoken out against outing as I don’t believe it to be politically expedient or fair in any manner on the people involved.
When I wrote that post on Sunday I was referring to comments on youtube, twitter and facebook to Emmet Stagg, sniggers about the Phoenix Park etc. I even made reference on twitter myself to the matter before I wrote about it – saying that I was tired of this cheap shots being made. I did not accusing you of doing it – It was the young greens and their mates who are noted as being the most vociferous online these days that I was referring to.
I’ve not replied to your email yet due the fact I was out for most of the day. I did confirm to those who asked that if it was you who commented. And the contents of the rest of your email to me were marked private and are being treated as thus unless you request otherwise.
Suzy
“And it seems to have been added in AFTER I sent a personal detailed explanation of said ‘technicality’ that Suzy asked for.”
It wasn’t. As far as I recall, this comment was included in Suzy’s post from the start. For god’s sake, Paul, will you feck off back to the backbenches and stop embarrassing yourself further.
PG said “Why then was no journalist spoken to or press release sent out for six months this year? ”
is this supposed to good thing, I think not.
Paul you make the mistake of treating all the citizens of this country with spite as some sort of enemy.
to repeat myself from p.ie
am i only the only one that views the statements from the gov party in the house not only being directed at the opposition across from them but at every citizen in ireland, and you should treat what you say in that respect, it may reflect on the rest of the country and lead to less partisanship, of course it goes without saying the whole dail should grow up and stop making jokes and lame jibes while discussing serious matters but i think the government parties should primarily expected to speak respectfully to those that are watching and listening…
gogarty you didn’t just say fuck you to the opposition rep but to the whole country.
the ed spokesmen resignation was clearly a farce as you weren’t replaced
Steve (and others) I’m not interested in replicating anything that is happening on P.ie re this issue – I’ve not visited but have been told that it’s particularly nasty. In fact if the comments in this post continue in an aggressive manner (from all sides) I’ll close them.
Hi MamanP
You are cleaner than clean when it comes to writing your posts. I’ve always found your writing and treatment of those you write about to be scrupulously fair, indeed sometimes too fair! You are biased of course in that you have opinions on people and issues but that’s why I read you! But that comment on homophobia of supporters etc was there when I first read the post. That is before Paul Gogarty commented on it. Also I’ve read Panti’s post too and it’s the usual from people trying to find something that’s not there.
Anyway I just wanted to say that I really enjoy reading your blog and your insight and have learnt so much from it. Thanks for all the enjoyment and information you’ve brought during the past year.
Paul says “There are no other credible options. Full stop.”
Yes, there are and they have not even been considered by this government. It has been one long hollowing out of a debate since the end of the summer: we must satisfy the bond holders, we must recapitalise the banks, public servants are paid too much, welfare cheats steal our money.
The line that There Is No Alternative to cutting the blind pension and language support in schools is an ideological one, not a technical statement of fact. You might want to have a read of this: http://www.irishleftreview.org/2009/12/16/social-welfare-cuts-path-resistance-politically/
And deputy: why the contempt for the electorate? “We are in this trouble because of the lot of you….”
Maman, the content on p.ie could hardly be much nastier than that used by deputy Gogarty. I don’t believe that the tone or content used here has been nasty and as it’s the only place that the deputy appears interested in engaging with the public I would hope that it could remain open.
On the other hand in his engagement here he has preferred to deal with the flippery around this topic and has avoided engaging when confronted with anything of substance here. I hope that the deputy gets to have a Merrier Christmas than his actions in the Dáil have allowed many others to have. Actions are votes, mealy mouthed talk of concern as he says is cheap.
As for nastiness elsewhere, I’m not sure that deputy Gogarty can be expected to be able to call off or on attack dogs per se or even if he has any responsibility for them. Sure he could condemn them and call for them to desist but whether they would or not is sort of out of his hands.
Just dropping by to say how much I continue to enjoy your blog.
Here’s wishing you every success for 2010.
The Deputy sees hypocrisy as the conduct of others.
He will protest for the public bot vote for the party (FF that is)
citizensimon.blogspot.com
” Never let the truth get in the way of a good story, isn’t that right? There isn’t such a thing as news any more there is prejudice from one viewpoint or another. It applies to bloggers equally as with print and broadcast media”
Blame mainstream media – if that aint a Sarah P moment.
Love the comment by Sean R on blue smoke and mirrors by the way.
If anything good came out of this it was me finding this blog – keep up the good work
citizensimon.blogspot.com