Maman Poulet

As I mentioned last night the Catholic Bishops have published a leaflet on marriage yesterday.  Except it’s not really about marriage is it?

The full contents are now available to read on their website.

There is loads of stuff in this to poke holes in but let’s not forget that the church are trying to change the message from the mess they have been in for years – well some of them are anyway – it’s no mistake that Diarmuid Martin was not around at the launch of this yesterday – I don’t think he supports the publication or the contents given his previous statements on it.

And the last paragraph is very interesting

What should I do?

Contact your TD or a member of the Seanad.
Write to, email or text your local media.

Debate the issue.
These are important matters about marriage and the family and about respect for freedom of conscience. These proposals should not go unchallenged.

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The Catholic Bishops have been having their spring meeting for the past three days and the press conference today saw them complain about unfair treatment by the media and also express their concerns about the civil partnership bill.

The Press release sent out at the end of the meeting says that the bishops are going to publish a leaflet on Marriage.

‘Why marriage matters’ – statement by the Bishops’ Conference on the Civil Partnership Bill

Bishops agreed to publish a leaflet ‘Marriage matters’ in support of marriage and family life.  This leaflet expresses concern about aspects of the Civil Partnership Bill, currently before the Oireachtas.  The leaflet summarises key elements of Catholic teaching on marriage between a man and woman.  It reiterates the importance of the family as the natural primary and fundamental unit of society and therefore deserving of special protection by the State.  It also highlights that other forms of relationships are not of the same nature and status as that of marriage as the basis of the family.

This information leaflet will be released as a statement, published by Veritas, made available in dioceses and on www.catholicbishops.ie.  Bishops encouraged everyone concerned to inform themselves and to read ‘Marriage Matters’.

Patsy McGarry reports in the Irish Times this evening

Bishop Jones also expressed grave concern about the Civil Partnership Bill at the press conference. He said the bishops had discussed taken a Constitutional action against the Bill should it become law. “As you know marriage and the family are enshrined in the Constitution and the State has an obligation to protect and promote marriage and family life,” he said.

“We are really very concerned that the Civil Partnership Bill is going to undermine marriage by conferring all the rights on same sex unions as marriage, equating same sex union to marriage itself,” he said.

Where the refusal of the Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern to allow an opt out clause for people who had conscience problems when it came to association or involvement with same sex ceremonies he said the bishops were “very worried about that. Very worried.

The people involved in the ceremonies beyond the couples are the registrars, Bishop. And they are simply being required to do their jobs.  And we know you don’t give a toss about this conscientious objection and just don’t want any rights given to ‘the gays’.

Of course they are late to the party here – the bishops intervention comes 8 months after the publication of the bill when it’s about to enter committee stage and supposedly long enough after the publication of the Murphy and Ryan reports for their graces to rear their heads.   It’s Civil Partnership but the church leaders are far from civil and of course siding with the extremists (yes they are!) who will be partying for days or at least trying to.  David Quinn’s phone calls giving out to them earlier this year have been productive! (Yes he did call them giving out loads that they were chickens not saying anything).

Update:  More from Patsy McGarry on the forthcoming episcopal (m) utterings  in Thursday’s Irish Times  including the line that Same Sex Unions are ‘incapable of realising the specific communion of persons that is marriage’.  Well if it’s their particular  communion that we can’t realise that’s fine so, that’s not what most same sex couples wish to ‘aspire to’.

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A roundtable on LGBT Rights hosted by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights is taking place tomorrow in Dublin.

FRA will bring together experts in LGBT rights in a roundtable meeting on 9 March in Dublin. These will include representatives of governments, cities, police, civil society organisations, academics, the European Commission and the Council of Europe. Under discussion will be ways to combat discrimination, bullying and harassment experienced by lesbian, gay, bisexual, transsexual and transgender (LGBT) persons. The meeting will present good practice examples of combating bullying and harassment in schools, tackling hate crimes and ensuring safety for LGBT communities. It will also be an opportunity to review existing gaps in, and constraints upon, the development of long-term LGBT friendly policies, and to transfer knowledge and experience.

The agenda can be read here

Is it just me or did anyone else not know it was happening? Maybe someone is liveblogging it? Any of our esteemed local organisations telling anyone it’s happening?

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Thanks to WorldByStorm for this email he received regarding a meeting in Leinster House tonight hosted by Dublin South TD and Cabinet Minister Eamon Ryan.

The meeting is regarding the Civil Partnership Bill and the delgation attending are lobbying against the bill and seeking protection for those who wish to concientiously object to conducting the registrations of partnerships.

But they are not homophobic, ah no…

Our concerns must be conveyed in a dignified and non-emotive way in order not to allow our concerns about the bill being described by the media as homophobic or intolerant.Our case will be that we have a democratic right to campaign for the protection of marriage and the family as they are understood by moral and natural law and by all the major religions of the world.

The group, as yet unknown, are hoping to meet with other TD’s during their visit.  Anyone who attends, delegation or TD and wants to report on it please let me know!

Update:  Word from Leinster House (Green Party) that there were 60 at meeting and that Coir and Richard Greene took over the meeting. There was one gay man in attendance.

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I was intrigued but not surprised on Saturday night to read Cllr Dermot Looney’s blog about wanting to bring Dublin Pride to Tallaght.

I have long had difficulties with the Dublin Pride March and it’s lack of message and meaningless ending in a scuttle down the back of of Wood Quay hidden from everyone. South Dublin City Council have supported initiatives to increase lesbian and gay visibility in their library and through measures promoting social inclusion.  Cllr. Looney wants to go one better and bring the march to Tallaght and is bringing a motion seeking support to the council’s monthly meeting tomorrow night.

This Council congratulates the success of Dublin Pride in raising awareness of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights in Dublin for more than 25 years and offers its support for the 2010 event. This Council will contact Dublin LGBTQ Pride Limited to offer support and assistance, with a view to holding events in the South Dublin area in this and future Pride festivals.

The issues facing lgbt’s in Ireland are local issues as well as national. Throughout this city people face discrimination and violence in their homes and continue to struggle for acceptance in their workplaces and amongst their families. This applies in Tallaght, Clondalkin and other parts of the city as well as between the canals. I mentioned during last years local and European elections that there were lots of issues beyond recognition of relationships that need to be addressed by elected and unelected officials and it’s very encouraging to see someone who is not gay taking on the issues unprompted and realising the importance of diversity and inclusion throughout the city and county.

I’ve been to North West Pride in Sligo for the past four years and the visibility, friendliness and involvement of other groups and support of local councillors all make the event extremely enjoyable and important for lgbt visibility.

If the Dublin Pride directors (who are in charge of a healthy bank balance according to the accounts sent to all members recently) have any liathroidi they’ll be responding to Cllr. Looney and taking him up on the offer. The one thing about Tallaght is that there is space out there to have a party afterwards – a football stadium for a concert even! South Dublin County Council aren’t bad at all on disability access either which might solve another problem that Dublin Pride has had with it’s activities.

Or are they too deferential to the commercial interests in town, some of whom are not so keen on the idea?

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I was asked 3 times yesterday about gay people in the Irish Army and if they were allowed to serve. The hearings to examine the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell (DADT) have commenced in the USA and Obama has promised to remove the bar on lesbians and gay men serving openly in the US Military.

It’s so long ago since there has been any public discourse in the Irish media on the matter.

The answer is yes – lesbians and gay men can openly serve in the defence forces, in fact there has been no preclusion but in 1993 when male homosexuality was decriminalised in Ireland there was a significant change to make sure that there was no discrimination in terms of policy. At the same time as equal age of consent was introduced the Irish Defence Forces calmly announced that they would be treating heterosexuals and homosexuals equally – no relationships between senior and junior officers. No harassment of gay officers and no asking questions about peoples sexuality was also confirmed by Ministers and Army chiefs.

From the Irish Independent May 1993

In a related development, the Chief of Staff of the Irish Defence Forces, Lieutenant General Noel Bergin, told the _Irish Independent_ on Tuesday that a report on the introduction of a code of conduct governing interpersonal relationships is being prepared. The decision to prepare a report follows a recent announcement by the Minister for Defence, Mr David Andrews, that military regulations would be modified to take account of any reform in the civil law on homosexuality. Mr Andrews is seen as a member of the liberal wing of the Fianna Fail party. Lt Gen Bergin pointed out that the Army does not ask potential recruits about their sexual orientation, and that they had few problems in the past in this area.

And a quote from the Dáil record in February 1993 from the then Minister for Defence David Andrews

51. Mr. Barry asked the Minister for Defence if there are regulations governing homosexuality for entrants to the Defence Forces; the current official position on the matter; if it is proposed to make any changes in the present regulations; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Minister for Defence (Mr. Andrews): While the question of homosexuality is not specifically covered in Defence Force Regulations the provisions of section 169 of the Defence Act, 1954, provide that acts which are in breach of the criminal law of the State are also deemed to be offences against military law.

Information regarding sexual orientation is not sought from personnel wishing to enlist in the Defence Forces and it is not proposed to change this policy.

The Defence forces have a code on interpersonal relationships and guidelines in relation to discrimination – see Section 4 par 119.

I’m sure there is still discrimination faced by gay and lesbian members of the defence forces but the policy would indicate that there is no bar on lesbians and gay men working in this area. Other lgbt historians and folklorists may wish to add information to this post?

Maybe we could send current Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea to Washington to tell them all about it? It’s 17 years ago since the issue was dealt with here and 17 years since it was last debated in the Capitol Hill.

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You may remember when the second stage debate on the Civil Partnership Bill began back in December, Lucinda Creighton, FG TD for Dublin South East, was not present when called on to speak. There has been extensive time given to the debate fortunately and yesterday Lucinda spoke and thanks to the wonders that is the internet and in case you missed it I thought you may wish to see it.

Lucinda has spoken at Iona Institute events and given interviews to the Irish Catholic expressing concern at rights being given to same sex relationships. She had also previously spoke in favour of people being able to object to providing services to or conducting civil partnership ceremonies.  (She also differs greatly with her colleague Leo Varadkar on tax individualisation!)

But the speech yesterday indicates a change of heart on the issues or at least a change of language to appear reasonable but concerned?  She knows a lot of gay couples who live a ‘normal fashion’ in their communities. However we’re not traditional (phew) and she likes and supports traditional families and wants the constitution to protect them.  She doesn’t think people should be jailed for breaking the law either if they refuse to perform a civil partnership (there is similar legislation in place in relation to civil marriage) She even gives a shout out to noted liberal bishop Willie Walsh! Some in Iona and other groups will no doubt be tutting!

(If any other video fairies have footage of other TD’s speaking on the debate please get in touch!)

For an excellent summary of yesterday’s debate please head over to Human Rights in Ireland where Mairead has noted my tongue was firmly in my cheek re Leo’s dating needs.  Fiona has also examined the issues regarding a conscience clause in another post today on HRinI.

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Still getting the links together from the Civil Partnership Debate yesterday (the bill has passed it’s Second Stage and has been referred to the Select Committee on Justice, Equality and Law Reform for the stage where amendments are put and debated.)

However I thought we might try assist Leo Varadkar TD (Fine Gael) in finding a partner he can marry and get a tax relief from (if the partner earns less than 25k).

Yesterday in his contribution to the Civil Partnership Debate (while supporting the bill) Deputy Varadkar spoke about the discrimination he faces as a single person.

I am single and live alone. Being single, I pay a lot of tax. I do not wish to be poor-mouthing but must state I probably pay 40% of my income in tax. As a result I have to pay the mortgage and utility bills on my own, which is the same for the many hundreds of thousands of single people in the State. Ironically, if I were to marry someone earning less than €25,000, I would be able to share the costs of living and reduce my tax bill by €7,000. It seems to be somewhat unfair that as a single person I am essentially paying more tax to subsidise other married people who may earn more than me. This anomaly of the tax system is designed to support marriage. This issue will also arise with civil partnership in that the Finance Acts will be amended to offer the same benefit for those who enter a civil partnership. Single people will effectively be subsidising the lifestyles of married people.

Why should single people have to pay €7,000 more in tax? I accept an issue arises where there is a family. However, in a family there must be children. We should consider changing the system so that those rights apply to families with dependent children. It is somewhat unfair that some Members with the same income as mine, who have stay-at-home wives who chose not to work but spend the day on the golf course or lunching, pay less tax than I do. I do not have an objection to their choice but I object to single people having to pay more tax so that other people have that choice. This anomaly needs to be addressed in our tax system.

So anyone want to design a personal advertisement for the Deputy? (applicants might also want to note that he also said getting rights from cohabiting together after only two years was a bit too short)  I also assume some of the Fine Gael Ladies Lunch crew won’t be too amused by his views on their activities.

Your efforts at ads are very welcome (by me anyway if not the Deputy).

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So when the Civil Partnership legislation passes and is finally enacted same sex couples  should be able to register their relationships in a variety of places that are approved for the conduct of civil ceremonies.

Including….

(It was announced yesterday that Croke Park was registered as a venue for the conducting of civil marriages)

Now maybe the GAA can talk all about what an open and tolerant organisation it is.  But I do think Archbishop Croke will be spinning somewhere.   I can see the ceremony organisers spinning it now as the new Cathedral

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The Civil Partnership Bill Second Stage Debate will resume this Wednesday 27th January some time between 11.30 and 1.30pm. There are two other bills for debate during this time before contributions can be made. Who’s left to speak? Personally I’m still waiting for Lucinda.

You can watch it here and of course join in the liveblog here.

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