Maman Poulet

Thanks to WorldByStorm for this email he received regarding a meeting in Leinster House tonight hosted by Dublin South TD and Cabinet Minister Eamon Ryan.

The meeting is regarding the Civil Partnership Bill and the delgation attending are lobbying against the bill and seeking protection for those who wish to concientiously object to conducting the registrations of partnerships.

But they are not homophobic, ah no…

Our concerns must be conveyed in a dignified and non-emotive way in order not to allow our concerns about the bill being described by the media as homophobic or intolerant.Our case will be that we have a democratic right to campaign for the protection of marriage and the family as they are understood by moral and natural law and by all the major religions of the world.

The group, as yet unknown, are hoping to meet with other TD’s during their visit.  Anyone who attends, delegation or TD and wants to report on it please let me know!

Update:  Word from Leinster House (Green Party) that there were 60 at meeting and that Coir and Richard Greene took over the meeting. There was one gay man in attendance.

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You may remember when the second stage debate on the Civil Partnership Bill began back in December, Lucinda Creighton, FG TD for Dublin South East, was not present when called on to speak. There has been extensive time given to the debate fortunately and yesterday Lucinda spoke and thanks to the wonders that is the internet and in case you missed it I thought you may wish to see it.

Lucinda has spoken at Iona Institute events and given interviews to the Irish Catholic expressing concern at rights being given to same sex relationships. She had also previously spoke in favour of people being able to object to providing services to or conducting civil partnership ceremonies.  (She also differs greatly with her colleague Leo Varadkar on tax individualisation!)

But the speech yesterday indicates a change of heart on the issues or at least a change of language to appear reasonable but concerned?  She knows a lot of gay couples who live a ‘normal fashion’ in their communities. However we’re not traditional (phew) and she likes and supports traditional families and wants the constitution to protect them.  She doesn’t think people should be jailed for breaking the law either if they refuse to perform a civil partnership (there is similar legislation in place in relation to civil marriage) She even gives a shout out to noted liberal bishop Willie Walsh! Some in Iona and other groups will no doubt be tutting!

(If any other video fairies have footage of other TD’s speaking on the debate please get in touch!)

For an excellent summary of yesterday’s debate please head over to Human Rights in Ireland where Mairead has noted my tongue was firmly in my cheek re Leo’s dating needs.  Fiona has also examined the issues regarding a conscience clause in another post today on HRinI.

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Still getting the links together from the Civil Partnership Debate yesterday (the bill has passed it’s Second Stage and has been referred to the Select Committee on Justice, Equality and Law Reform for the stage where amendments are put and debated.)

However I thought we might try assist Leo Varadkar TD (Fine Gael) in finding a partner he can marry and get a tax relief from (if the partner earns less than 25k).

Yesterday in his contribution to the Civil Partnership Debate (while supporting the bill) Deputy Varadkar spoke about the discrimination he faces as a single person.

I am single and live alone. Being single, I pay a lot of tax. I do not wish to be poor-mouthing but must state I probably pay 40% of my income in tax. As a result I have to pay the mortgage and utility bills on my own, which is the same for the many hundreds of thousands of single people in the State. Ironically, if I were to marry someone earning less than €25,000, I would be able to share the costs of living and reduce my tax bill by €7,000. It seems to be somewhat unfair that as a single person I am essentially paying more tax to subsidise other married people who may earn more than me. This anomaly of the tax system is designed to support marriage. This issue will also arise with civil partnership in that the Finance Acts will be amended to offer the same benefit for those who enter a civil partnership. Single people will effectively be subsidising the lifestyles of married people.

Why should single people have to pay €7,000 more in tax? I accept an issue arises where there is a family. However, in a family there must be children. We should consider changing the system so that those rights apply to families with dependent children. It is somewhat unfair that some Members with the same income as mine, who have stay-at-home wives who chose not to work but spend the day on the golf course or lunching, pay less tax than I do. I do not have an objection to their choice but I object to single people having to pay more tax so that other people have that choice. This anomaly needs to be addressed in our tax system.

So anyone want to design a personal advertisement for the Deputy? (applicants might also want to note that he also said getting rights from cohabiting together after only two years was a bit too short)  I also assume some of the Fine Gael Ladies Lunch crew won’t be too amused by his views on their activities.

Your efforts at ads are very welcome (by me anyway if not the Deputy).

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So when the Civil Partnership legislation passes and is finally enacted same sex couples  should be able to register their relationships in a variety of places that are approved for the conduct of civil ceremonies.

Including….

(It was announced yesterday that Croke Park was registered as a venue for the conducting of civil marriages)

Now maybe the GAA can talk all about what an open and tolerant organisation it is.  But I do think Archbishop Croke will be spinning somewhere.   I can see the ceremony organisers spinning it now as the new Cathedral

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The Civil Partnership Bill Second Stage Debate will resume this Wednesday 27th January some time between 11.30 and 1.30pm. There are two other bills for debate during this time before contributions can be made. Who’s left to speak? Personally I’m still waiting for Lucinda.

You can watch it here and of course join in the liveblog here.

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In case the Dáil gets around to debating the Second Stage of the Civil Partnership Bill today (the schedule has changed to allow for statements on Haiti) some information on how to watch and where.

I’ve set up a live blog for the debate and you can watch/listen to the feed and participate in the commentary. (I’ll be at a meeting and will miss the whole thing myself if it happens.)

If you just want to watch the debate without the wit, banter and outrage of the viewing masses then you can watch it here.

If you are at the debate itself or watching it and want to tweet -  the tag is #cpbill and we’ll incorporate the tweets into the blog.  Blog posts, video, photos etc. are also very welcome.

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Update: The Debate may not take place tomorrow due to an emergency round of statements from party spokespersons on Haiti. The Adoption Bill debate may have a large number of speakers and so time for the Civil Partnership Bill Debate may be restricted.

The Second Stage of the Civil Partnership Bill will resume on Thursday next.  It will take place probably around lunchtime and will follow the second stage debate of the Adoption Bill. The Debate is scheduled to conclude at 3.30pm.

If you want to attend the debate in person you should contact your TD (email set up for TD’s is firstname.lastname@oireachtas.ie) I’m working on Thursday but there will be a live blog of the debate with the links to the live feed of the debate. I’ll announce the details later this week.

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An important ruling earlier this month from the Court of Appeal in the UK to a ruling in the Employment Appeal Tribunal concerning a registrar Lillian Ladele.

Ms. Ladele took a case against her employer, Islington Council, alleging that she was harassed and discriminated against by the council because she refused to perform registrations at civil partnership ceremonies. She did not wish to perform the function due to her religious convictions.  The council had issued verbal and written warnings but had not dismissed Ms. Ladele.  She has voluntarily left her position since September.

An Employment Tribunal initially found in her favour last year but the Employment Appeals Tribunal ruled against her and she took the case to the Court of Appeal.

Masters of the Rolls, Lord Neuberger in his judegment refusing leave to appeal to the Supreme Court said

It appears to me that, however much sympathy one may have with someone such as Ms Ladele, who is faced with choosing between giving up a post she plainly appreciates or officiating at events which she considers to be contrary to her religious beliefs, the legislature has decided that the requirements of a modern liberal democracy, such as the United Kingdom, include outlawing discrimination in the provision of goods, facilities and services on grounds of sexual orientation, subject only to very limited exceptions.”

This ruling will be watched with interest by both lgbt rights groups and the Iona Institute and Renew and their supporters who are campaigning for the insertion of the an amendment to the Civil Partnership Bill to protect those who do not wish to perform registrations due to their religious convictions .   It is anticipated that the Government will not include such an amendment and indeed many opposition politicians are against it’s inclusion.

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Berfore the debate took place yesterday you may remember hearing that FF were having a special meeting with Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Dermot Ahern.  The meeting was to discuss the possible inclusion of  an amendment protecting those who do not want to offer services to those registering their civil partnership or being involved in the registration of such a partnership.

(Called by some the ‘Freedom of Conscience’ amendment it’s now widely known as the Florist cop out (hence the blog post title) following my blog post on October 25 – and after last nights debate where florists were popular reference points and thought of being quite likely to want to sell their flowers  ‘in the current climate’.)

Mary Minihan and Steven Carroll report today in the Irish Times that Ahern ruled out such an amendment with the meeting convenor, Deputy Sean Connick  saying that the issue was covered by equality law and that such an amendment would ‘not be good law’.

So that’s that done – until Senator Ronan Mullen gets speaking in the Seanad puffing out his chest and doing his stint for Iona.  Or maybe Fine Gael are pushed into making an amendment in the Dáil. Their spokesperson Charlie Flanagan TD said the matter had to be looked at in his speech tonight but was a bit vague as to how.

I’m not surprised that Ahern ruled this out as there is no precedent for individual objection in Irish law and it would make very poor law.  The fact that those pushing the amendment were hounding politicians about it as a ruse for their objection of any recognition of same sex couples must also be very clear to the vast majority of our legislators given the amount of standard emails they received in the last few weeks.

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Lucinda Creighton was due to speak on the Civil Partnership Bill this evening but when the Ceann Comhairle called her name the Deputy for Dublin South East was nowhere to be found.

Wondering if the discussions in Fine Gael about the florist cop out amendment are getting a bit too much for her? I’m sure she’ll be back in the new year for the continuation of the debate with her friends in the Iona Institute propping her up. (Lucinda doesn’t really like the bill and wants some sort of protection for those who don’t like gays much either.)

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