Deputy Cuffe – Tell us how you have not copped out?
Posted by Maman Poulet on 01 Nov 2007 at 02:27 pm | Tagged as: Ciaran Cuffe, Cop Out, Gay, Irish Politics, KAL Case, LGBT, Lesbian, Queer, Same Sex Partnerships, gayvote.ie
I wonder how the lesbian and gay members of the Green Party are feeling this morning – there are quite a few of them – some of very long standing, others quite new. I know how many Green Party voters are feeling – their ire is all through lesbian and gay message boards and filling up the inboxes of Green Party TD’s. One of the great things about the Civil Union bill (and the visibility and campaigning of Labour LGBT) is that many non political lesbians and gay men have got interested and angry in a way that they were not allowed or permitted by other movements/organisations.
I wonder how Green Party officials will feel at their next European Green getogether – you know looking in the face of Greens from those many countries who have full civil partnerships and marriage and indeed a variety of options on offer. A fine example of Green Party Action in Government.
A little reminder from wikipedia..and here’s a link to an excellent ILGA summary of the situation.
Civil partnership, domestic partnerships, Unregistered partnership or registered partnerships offer varying amounts of the benefits of marriage and are available in: Andorra, Colombia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, South Africa, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom. They are also available in some parts of Argentina, Brazil (Rio Grande do Sul), Mexico, the U.S. states of California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, New Hampshire (effective January 1, 2008), New Jersey, Oregon (effective January 1, 2008), Vermont, Washington state, and the District of Columbia (Washington, D.C.); Uruguay (effective November 1, 2007).
In the United Kingdom, civil partnerships have identical legal status to a marriage, and partners gain all the same benefits and associated legal rights; ranging from tax exemptions and joint property rights, to next-of-kin status and shared parenting responsibilities. Partnership ceremonies are performed by a marriage registrar in exactly the same manner as a secular civil marriage. Civil unions in New Zealand are identical to British civil partnerships in their association with equivalent spousal rights and responsibilities to fully-fledged heterosexual marriage.
…
Full marriage is presently available to same-sex couples in seven countries. The Netherlands was the first country to allow same-sex marriage in 2001. Same-sex marriages are also recognized in Belgium, Canada, South Africa, Spain, and the U.S. state of Massachusetts
Irish Green Party Policy on Same Sex relationships? Marriage? Civil Unions? Rights for non registered co-habitants – ah remember that?
Private member Bills are never perfect, neither is government proposed legislation – that is what amendments are for. But in the real world private members Bills are not usually accepted unless you are Alan Shatter T.D. But with a government main party so well known for long fingering things, the sayings of Bertie at the openings of gay organisations and community centres were wearing very thin.
So in world where equality is given it’s full meaning and the Greens stand by their principles, we should have expected far far more that the rubbish promised last night and danced out in press releases as a victory. Heads of a bill published in 6 months dealing with other types of relationships and governed by some Agency – introducing new forms of half rights and lots of wrongs.
I have been berated for being too hard on the Greens – been told that I don’t know how hard they had to work on the issue to get the March ‘08 commitment. If that is hard work I’d hate to see you in a real crisis lads. I’m not even one of the queers looking for use of the M (marriage) word – but with what Lenihan has hinted at and Ciaran Cuffe himself has revealed we’re not even going to get full civil partnership rights – just a load of nods and winks (Kieran Rose from GLEN called it a Hire Purchase Agreement this morning – I think that is going to stick!) hidden under a carpet along with a string of other types of friendships, blood relationships and house-sharers.
Principled Pragmatists (PP) is what Ciaran Cuffe describes his position as on Morning Ireland this morning – oh that’s far too generous- get the stuff right the first time – give Marie Geoghegan Quinn a call – she brought full equality in 14 years ago the first time round and that was sex between men she was dealing with! (Update: More on the Greens and PP over with Dermod.)
In their first major test the Greens have sold us out – keeping us in our lowly places not equal at all. Shame…
Archbishops House must be really quite happy today at the plans…I’ll be putting up the speeches from last nights debate later today for a bit of further dissemination. The Oireachtas Website is fairly inaccessible at times – people need to see how they were cast aside.
PS: Congratulations to the Lesbians and Gay Men in Uruguay who get civil partnership rights from today – so do heterosexual couples, no mention of aunts, brothers, hire purchasing or housesharers there.
[...] Posted by suzybie on 30 Oct 2007 at 08:14 pm | Tagged as: Irish Politics, LGBT, Queer, irishelection2007, KAL Case, Same Sex Partnerships, Gay, Homophobia, Equality, Ciaran Cuffe, Cop Out Updates to this post can be found here and here Ciaran Cuffe – is this what doing a deal with the devil is all about? Today on Lunchtime on Newstalk you were laying out the various reasons why it might not be the right time to vote in favour of redebating the Labour Party’s Civil Unions Bill, a motion on which will go before the Dáil in private members time tomorrow night. The Green Party voted in favour of the Bill when in oppostion in February 2007 – yes that’s last February. [...]
Check out our trailer on Gay Marriage. Produced to
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[...] Updates to this post can be found here [...]
I’m feeling very long-fingered today and not in a good way. More spinning out of the debate in today’s Indo, that civil unions will come in ’sometime’…
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gay-marriages-soon-to-be-legal-1209134.html
I don’t think you are enough on bloody FF
Heads of bill in march still could mean 4-5 years
Martin Mansergh spoke for the way that I think most FFers are viewing this:
1. It costs too much money
2. If we have to discuss it – what about elderly brothers etc
3. It’s not what David Quinn and his cronies want
4. People will get civilly unioned/partnered just for the tax breaks
5. It still costs too much money
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate…xml&Node=H5#H5
[...] If you’re new here, you may want to subscribe to my site using a feedreader or email. Thanks for visiting – Damien.A Suzy points out, this time it’s the people that want civil unions who have had their throats slit in order for the Greens to stay in power. The spine of the Green Party must be completely eroded now judging by the way they’ve contorted themselves to bend over backwards in new ways for Fianna Fáil. Seriously, if I was a FF supporter I’d be so entertained at the hazing they’re giving the Greens. [...]
Hate to be a pedant, but MGQ did not introduce equality when she decriminalised homosexuality way back in 1993. The difference may have been in the details, but it was there, albeit never acknowledged as such here. You can work out the inequality from the appendix to a discussion paper the Dept Justice issued in 1998: http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/SexualOffencesLawPaper.pdf/Files/SexualOffencesLawPaper.pdf
Interestingly, this has been picked up by queer activists at a European level (first by Helmut Graupner in Austria, followed by ILGA and Kees Waaldijk).
Hard to understand. I really don’t see what the political problem is. Just go and do it.
Hi Suzy,
Thanks for taking such an interest in this. I am an openly gay member of the Green Party, as are many other members I know. They(the ones I have spoken too) did not have the same ire that you have,as they are aware of the work that the party has put in to move this.
This time last year, we had no timeline and a plan for a bill that would put spinster brothers on the same level as a couple in a loving, sexual relationship.
The most important thing is to ensure that there is a basic level of legal protection for same-sex couples. As a young man, I can hold out longer for fuller rights. However, there are elderly gay couples, more at risk of medical emergencies and death, who need it asap. We now have the change of getting it within the next 12months, and we have the Green Party to thank for that.
[...] Maman Poulet has been blogging excellently on the issue over the last week, and the Greens have particularly annoyed her. [...]
For the first time ever, an Irish Cabinet has agreed to legislate for civil partnerships for same-sex couples, based on the recommendations in the Colley Report.
How is this a bad thing?
If I may, Maman Poulet… oh Roderic!
It is a “bad thing” Roderic because the Greens seem to have back-peddled on promises they made around same-sex relationships and conflated “us” with elderly siblings. Curiously, gay men and lesbians usually get told that they’re not “family”… so are siblings, gays, cats and dogs to be relegated to sexual denizens?
Untold political damage, which could have been avoided, as been done to both the reputation of the Green Party and to LBGT sexual politics more generally. FF seemed happy to have the Greens be the fall guy for this issue, and I cannot believe how naive the Greens have been.
People dislike the way in which your party’s gay rights policy seems to have been whittled down. Would you have modified climate change policy in the same way as ‘gay marriage’ was altered into civil unions? Are “we” a core value?
Even if you did not have the numbers in the coalition to make gay marriage (and family policy generally) into an critical issue, your party could be a radical voice within a coalition, and instead it seems you’ve rolled over and played dead. As a gay man, I’m feeling sore about that at present. FF is not that strong, challenge them with an intelligent argument, and you might have shifted the terrain.
That said,as a sociologist, I just cannot believe how an opportunity was missed… I would suggest that if FF/Greens had supported the Bill, then collaborated on sorting out all the issues involved,etc it would have stolen Fine Gael and Labour’s thunder for about a year into the govt [and I say that as someone who would support Joan Burton]. So part of me is screaming “fecking eejits!” A massive opportunity to develop respect among liberal voters was missed. Please tell me that you’re not kicking yourselves?
I just hope the proposals in March will be fecking amazing … like full civil marriage and state-subsidised wedding cake for all same-sex couples over 40! Make a leap and your Party will be OK in the longer term, sup with the Bertie beast, and you’ll be lucky to hold onto the State bicycles. (Thanks fo the space to rant MP… love you lots!)
I’m a GP member who supports full equality for same sex couples and I have not been directing my ire at any member of our parliamentary party. This is a political issue and the outcome we all desire will be acheived by political means rather than grand gestures and political martyrdom. Legislation to deal with civil partnerships is now on the agenda. The Labour Party could have gone on publishing PMBs for the next 5 years, but the only tangible result that has been acheived on this issue has been acheived because of the GP’s influence in Government.
Oh pleeze Garreth darling… how is a civil union ‘full equality’? It’s like political coitus interruptus and it is not full equality. There is an underlying (unspoken) concern about gays getting children, as if we’re the frigging child-catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. I bet the politicians won’t go there.
While its nice that you try to take credit for the Greens putting Civil Partnership on the agenda, I actually think it was on the agenda long before GP got a sniff of bioethanol from a Ministerial bicycle. I’ve not a clue what gestures or martyrdom mean in your comment, isn’t martyrdom where you sacrifice yourself for a cause …
In response to Sean R, the very point I have been trying to make is that the original idea, coming from Michael McDowell, that same-sex couples would be treated in the same way as spinster brothers etc, has been dropped from the Government proposal (at the insistence of the Green Party). The Civil Partnership model, that will result from the Government’s legislation, will solely be for same-sex couples.
I seem to have to keep reminding Roderic that the Colley report made NO recommendations that is ZERO recommendations – Options are not “recommendations”
Colley also put forward Civil Marriage as an OPTION – so please don’t keep saying that her report reccomended Civil Partnership because it didn’t
[...] Ciaran and his colleagues vote against a Civil Unions Bill last year in the Dáil? How is that [...]