Maman Poulet

The Irish Catholic reports (not sure of publication date) that there is growing support for a concientious objector or ‘religious freedom’ amendment to the Civil Partnership Bill. (h/t Ian)

Amongst the TD’s quoted as being supportive are Mattie McGrath (FF – Tipperary South) and Lucinda Creighton (FG Dublin South East)

Irish Catholic editor (and former Vatican Radio staffer) Michael Kelly writes that Creighton supports such an amendment and that there are several other FG TD’s in support of it.  There are lots of lesbians and gay men living and voting in Dublin South East (Ranelagh, Rathmines, Donnybrook, etc.) and you may feel the urge to respectfully contact Ms. Creighton (lucinda.creighton (@) oireachtas.ie) and tell her that there is no need for such an amendment and that this issue has nothing to do with religion.  No amendments have been published yet by the way. We’ll have to wait for the second stage to proceed on Thursday.

Labour are against including an amendment protecting registrars but say

”In general, the Labour Party would not support any measure that requires a religious organisation to be involved in any activity that is in conflict with its ethical position.”

Eh? It’s Civil Partnership.  However I’m sure they are referring to the church hall committee ruse.  Now if that parish hall has been in receipt of state funds and provides those facilities for groups that have nothing to do with religion I don’t see how it should be permitted to stop people using it for celebrations but I don’t think there is going to be massive queues to book the hall for a CP party.

I assumed the Labour Party won’t be supporting any amendment aimed at ‘protecting’ bigotry from an organisation or individual.  I’m sure that assumption is correct.

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The Second Stage Debate for the Civil Partnership Bill will take place on December 3rd at 6.45pm and is scheduled to take two hours.  There will be Committee and Report stages scheduled at a later date.  (This is where the opposition and sometimes government propose amendments to the Bill.)

Thursday night means a load of TD’s will have gone home early so there might be a load of welcome pairings for the uncomfortable.

December 3rd is the date of the next National Strike. I don’t know what impact that will have on access to the Public Gallery(and for the picket non passers amongst you!) but I will check out over the next few days. If you want to go watch the debate you can contact your local TD and try asking for a ticket in.  (Email list of TD’s is available here.)

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Family Solidarity are warning Catholic TD’s to vote ala Catholic and against the bill rather than ala carte.   They have a moral duty to do so it seems.

Ah Family Solidarity who spent much of the early 90’s being fascinated with men’s back passages  (anti sodomy group who published The Homosexual Challenge: Analysis and Response in 1990.)

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I’m not sure how I feel about the Civil Partnership Bill and the way it’s being referred to with respect to the Murphy Commission into child sexual abuse in the Dublin Diocese.

Ciaran Cuffe TD. yesterday said that

“The Catholic Church must question its whole approach to sexuality in the light of Judge Murphy’s Report.

“At a time when members of the Catholic Church hierarchy are actively campaigning against the Civil Partnership Bill being brought before the Dáil next week, there must be a pause for reflection within the Catholic Church, and a more concerted effort to protect the vulnerable.”

Let’s leave the lesbians and gays out of any mention regarding the horrendous crimes committed by priests and the mental reserved hierarchy I think. By even mentioning the Church you give them recognition of being involved in what is a civil matter and then there’s the whole matter of comparing church teaching on homosexuality and the matter of paedophilia and violence against children.

I’ve no doubt many people are delighted that the Church has been shown to be such a corrupt organisation and has no part to be involved in pronouncement on human rights and equality issues but it’s not sitting right  with me to bring it into this matter.

: analysis and response. Publisher Dublin : Family Solidarity, 1990. Description 64 p. ; 22 cm.

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According to today’s Observer, the European Commission has told the UK Government that it must change a new Equality Law as the exemption proposed for Religious bodies contravenes ‘an EU directive prohibiting discrimination on the grounds of a person’s sexual orientation.’

The law allowed religious groups to discriminate against gay employees “so as to avoid conflicting with the strongly held religious convictions of a significant number of the religion’s followers”.

Where does this leave Section 37 (i) of the Employment Equality Act in Ireland?

Section 37 (i) of the Employment Equality Act, 1998, 2004 states:

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A religious, educational or medical institution which is under the direction or control of a body established for religious purposes or whose objectives include the provision of services in an environment which promotes certain religious values shall not be taken to discriminate against a person for the purposes of this Part or Part II if—

a)    it gives more favorable treatment, on the religion ground, to an employee or a prospective employee over that person where it is reasonable to do so in order to maintain the religious ethos of the institution, or

b)    it takes action which is reasonably necessary to prevent an employee or a prospective employee from undermining the religious ethos of the institution.

Has the Commission examined the act? Whilst the section has yet to be interpreted by the Equality Tribunal or the courts, it is one of most contentious pieces of legislation amongst lesbians and gay men in Ireland. Especially amongst lgbt teachers.

And what of the religious groupings and their call for an amendment to Civil Partnership legislation to permit conscientious objection?

Update

Ian in the comments has found the story saying that the European Commisison believes that the Employment Equality Act ethos opt-out by religious institutions is broad enough for the Commission to drop their objection.

Related articles by Zemanta

• Brussels says churches must lift ban on employing homosexuals (guardian.co.uk)

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Other than wonder about the nature of the group which helped the mother in the Roscommon Case take a High Court action everyone should be asking

• What were the schools doing?
• What did the doctor or public health nurse do?
• What did the neighbours do?
• The shopkeepers?
• Why didn’t the health board go through other legal means following the high court injunction?

The culture of not telling or non interference is supported by society and influenced by mainstream church teaching in so many ways – no mandatory reporting, no Constitutional protection of children which to be fair to the health board does seem to limit the legal avenues open to it.

The Iona Institute tell us in a recent survey that 72% agree that parents should decide whats best for their children except for cases of abuse or neglect. This is code for no to a childrens rights referendum. These groups and the hierarchy have done and will do their best to slow down any attempt to change the constitution to give children access to rights.

There are many Catholic agencies and groups which oppose stay safe programmes, vaccination programmes, relationships and sexuality education, protection legislation and permit the distribution of ALIVE in churches and other church buildings. Those catholic groups which advocate/d a no vote in the Lisbon treaty did so in part to ‘protect the family’. Some of those individuals/groups providing parenting courses and advice for call-ins on television and radio programmes are deeply involved in Catholic fringe organisations but you wouldn’t know it.

The Church and it’s institutions own school buildings and maintain that they should direct the curriculum and decide on admittance despite state funding. They also have the right to decide who works in these schools. Their leaders don’t quit or get sacked when they don’t obey their own rules and policies on child protection or those of the state. Several government ministers regularly state that Ireland is a Christian country in relation to these and other types of social policy matters.

And the issue which should shock us even more than all the above is that the severity of abuse/neglect in the Roscommon case is still happening and there are even less people out there to report suspicions to (social workers being completely overburdened with cases). When these cases/suspicions are reported they take months or years to be investigated – and then the constitutional protection of the family and lack of full childcare protection legislation in the way.

Read Geoffrey Shannon’s report on the legislative deficits in terms of child protection in Ireland – the government paid him to write it.

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Ah those wise Celibate men (or they are supposed to be celibate) were holding their Autumn conference for the last few days and launching a new website yesterday. And in their statement released after their meeting they told us that they were talking about civil partnership. The full text of their thoughts relating to the proposed civil partnership bill is below for your dissection.

Which part of the word CIVIL do they not understand? (Never mind the word partnership…)

If God is about Love why do they hate us so much (or patronise us by saying love the sinner, hate the sin). They don’t mention the words lesbian or gay either, see that – they think they are clever!

(Many thanks to Damien (!) for the fluffy link that led me to this nugget. Nothing but eclectic the work of the Mulleymeister! More Donna Summer or Kylie needed!)

All this just in time for Conor’s appearance on the Late Late Show. Good luck to Conor, his brother and his parents, yes the whole family – they’ll be able to speak with some authority on the matter unlike the men in the mitres.

Civil Partnership Bill 2008
Bishops discussed the Civil Partnership Bill 2008, which was published in June by the Department of Justice, and in particular the Constitutional obligation on the Government to guard the institution of marriage with special care (Art. 41.3.1). Bishops highlighted the benefits which derive from marriage between a man and woman as the fundamental unit of society.

Bishops restated that marriage exists so that spouses may grow in mutual love and by generosity of their love, bring children into the world and serve life fully. As a faithful, exclusive and lifelong union between one man and one woman, marriage is both a relationship of persons and the fundamental unit upon which society is built.

Our recognition of this unique status is further deepened by our Christian understanding that love of husband and wife mirrors Christ’s abiding love for the Church.

The Irish Constitution rightly acknowledges the unique status of marriage and why it is appropriate for Government to support that status with special measures, including special measures in taxation and social welfare.

God, who is love, is the author of marriage. This authorship includes the natural complementarity of man and woman through which the union of spouses is deepened and the gift of new life is made possible.

Indicating that a further and more detailed statement on the Civil Partnership Bill would follow at a later date, Bishops revisited their submission to the All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Family in February 2005, which concluded:

“This special status of marriage does not prevent just and appropriate measures being taken in relation to the diversity of other forms of dependent relationship which exist in society. It may, in certain circumstances, be in the public interest to provide legal protection to the social, fiscal and inheritance entitlements of persons who support caring relationships which generate dependency, provided always that these relationships are recognised as being qualitatively different from marriage and that their acceptance does not dilute the uniqueness of marriage. However, it would seem discriminatory to confine this protection to those in sexual relationships and thereby exclude from protection the interests of siblings and other non-sexually involved cohabitees. Moreover, the creation of a category of ‘marriage like’ relationships which would enjoy special rights and protections would seem to contradict in spirit, if not in law, the pledge in Article 41.3.1 to guard with special care the institution of marriage. In the case of those who would in any event be free to marry, any scheme which confers on them many of the advantages of legal marriage, might be judged to be an incentive not to marry and to have devalued the institution of marriage.”

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In 1982 Eileen Flynn lost her job. The reason for her dismissal was that she was pregnant, unmarried and the father of her child was a married man. Eileen was a teacher in a convent school in New Ross and the school asked her to resign and said it would given her 3 months pay. The news of her pregnancy had followed several months of whispering and vocal opposition to her relationship. She refused to resign and they sacked her.

She took them to an Employment Appeals Tribunal and she lost. The case then went to the High Court where it ruled that Flynn’s pregnancy and relationship “…was capable of damaging [the nuns’] efforts to foster in their pupils…religious tenets the school had been established to promote.”

Eileen eventually returned to teaching in Wexford some years ago having married her partner and it is with great sadness that I heard that she died yesterday at the age of only 56. She is survived by her husband and their five children.

Eilleen had the support of many trade unionists, women and human rights activists at the time. While I understand her reasons to remain private subsequently I do hope that someone brings together some of the archive material to document the case and pay a tribute to her memory and the battle she fought to reclaim her job.

It’s still possible to be sacked from your job if something about your private life might contravene the religious ethos of the workplace (school, hospital etc.). It’s been deemed to be constitutional – and I wonder if the voices of protest might be louder if it happened now.

Update: Irish Times report on Eileen’s death and includes some commentary from the time and a quote from an interview she gave in 1999.

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So what did Willie Walsh, Bishop of Killaloe and friend of the opressed ever do to deserve the wrath of Clerical Whispers??

His collusion with the force in general has paid off as well considering that 2 Garda patrol cars and a Garda van were called to Ennis cathedral last week in an attempt to remove a person who was ever so drunk but asleep within the hallowed walls…but the men and women in blue failed in their job (nothing new there then) and it was left to the ambulance service to remove the man from the premises.

No doubt his relationship with the Force has played an integral part in a continued harassment against a younger member of the clergy over the last few years which one would hope will cease sooner rather than later but word has it once Bishop WW is retired, an explosive book of revelations shall be in the public domain exposing some of what has happened under the pastoral care of aforementioned WW.

I can smell the scorched incense from here!!!

For those of you who drop in and out of Irishblogs.ie you’ll note that Clerical Whispers is one of the most prolific blogs on the internet. I’m not sure if it’s one of the most read.

Pious in it’s appearance (apologies for directing you to the music!) there are regular posts to indicate disaffection from many things in the Church from the author, Sotto Voce, who definitely wore a collar at some stage if he’s not still clinging onto priestly orders.

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Thanks to Frank @ Cedar Lounge for letting me know that I’ll be missing Fr. John Harvey’s visit to the RDS Dublin tomorrow to speak at the Human Life International Conference. The talk I’ll be missing whilst doing some very queer shopping checking out all the dykes in Liffey Valley is entitled Homosexuality: Helping the homosexual orientated person to be chaste

Fr. John is a founder of Courage which is based in the USA and ministers to the oriented – cos they only feel that way and can do something about it seemingly.

Ah sure Auds might be there and let me know what I missed Wonder will they be talking about Jesus and his thing for John the Baptist, (what do you think they were doing during that fasting thing?). as for John the Gospel if ever there was a love story and as for the other 12 lads he hung out with??

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Robert Scoble and others interview the nun who’s in charge of the Vatican website. I don’t know whether to be scared or supportive of the work of Sister Judith Zoebelein. It’s a very interesting interview – Church goes second life and then back to first life and then to the next life probably.

She does not see any fly on the wall expose of how the Vatican works – so no change there on transparency and the church. Whats all this warp speed stuff? A trekie nun? Oh go watch it and see what Benny 16 thinks of the web.

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Roman Catholic Bishops in the USA will debte a new document on Pastoral Guidelines for ‘Ministry to Persons with Homosexual Inclination’ when they meet next month. Much of it is the usual ‘love the sinner hate the sin’ type of stuff but there are new challenges for them to face including a policy affirming the baptism of adopted children of lesbians and gay men.

No such pastoral letter exists in Ireland. There have been discussions and hints about pastoral outreach to lesbians and gay men from the Dublin Diocese but I have not heard if anything came from these in the past few years. Anyone else heard anything?

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